Why won't my Intellikey unlock ignition barrel after entering "idle mode"? Have to use real key...

Question

I have an EVO-ONE installed and working in my 2007 Nissan Maxima w/Intellikey. I use my OEM fob/Intellikey to start the car(3x lock). I can then hop into my car and turn the ignition barrel to the run position with my Intellikey in my pocket still and drive away.

 

When I park the car with it still running, I can hit the lock button 3x on my fob/Intellikey and the car will enter "idle mode". I can turn the ignition barrel to the "off" position and the car will remain running in idle mode.

 

The problem I'm having is after entering "idle mode", I can not turn my ignition barrel back to "run" so that I can drive away without using an actual physical key!  Why can I not take control of the car with my Intellikey while in "Idle mode"? The Intellikey still works on the doors while in "idle mode"(I know this because my door handle has a button I can press to unlock if the Intellikey is in range); it just won't let me move the ignition barrel. I have tried walking away from the car out of the Intellikey's range...I'm at a loss and really need this working. Without it, I have purchased and installed an expensive paperweight.

 

EDIT:What about option 35 in the starter settings? It's "Door unlock special application". what would enabling "Activate vehicle ignition at unlock" do? will it try to start everytime i unlock my door then or will it just unlock my igntion barrel like i want it to?

 

EDIT2:I just downgraded from EVO firmware 7.19 back to 7.18 with the same results. When in "idle mode", if I kill the starter via the brake pedal, I can instantly turn the ignition barrel to "run" using the Intellikey(no physical key in the ignition barrel). It simply won't turn the ignition barrel in "idle mode". I'm thinking this is firmware issue with the EVO-ONE.

Answer 1

Hi Bill, was this ever solved? Tumbler problems are normally caused by either the key-sense or tumbler sense wires not being powered correctly. I am pretty sure you are on the right wires though since the car does remote start. It does remote start on first attempt every time right?

 

Here's some things to try.

1. Enable all the A options in the bypass settings. A1 to A11. Those are defaut on. I always leave them on unless the install guide says to do other wise.
2. Press unlock after activating idle mode then try turning the tumbler
3. Make sure all doors closed when testing idle mode.
4. A quick an easy test is to jump both white/red and white/blue wires together from the red connector of the EVO-ONE after activating idle mode then see if you can turn the tumbler off.
5. Are you using a t-harness? Option 2-3 in the remote starter needs to be enabled or else the unit will be sending and ignition signal to the starter wire instead of a starter signal. Looking at the service number, i see the option is on but if a reset was done, the option would need to be re-enabled. Its super easy to test though! If you meter the WHITE wire directly at the EVO-ONE ignition harness (while the vehicle is started) and activate idle mode, their should no voltage on that wire.
6. The little yellow wire from the 20-pin connector needs to be connected on the thicker Pink wire of the t-harness.

 

Option 35 was created for Ford vehicles that require ignition and transponder for factory alarm disarm. We actually dont even use this option anymore since the the bypass portion of the EVO-ONE now controls it. Basically what this does, is if someone is using an aftermarket remote and unlocks the vehicle, the ignition turns on briefly and the bypass sends transponder code to disarm the oem alarm. This option does not concern your install.

Comments

No my issue has not been resolved. I called and was enfuriated by how Fortin customer care handled my questions. I'm essentially left with an expensive paperweight...idle mode was the my main reason for a unit like this because once I start my car with my Intellikey key and walk away, anybody can steal my car. Idle ought to be the answer to this...which it does half ass.

I called Fortin customer care and they explained that I will forever need to use a physical key to unlock my ignition barrel after entering idle mode because the Evo is locking the ignition barrel when idle mode is engaged in order to keep the car from being stolen. They are saying it has to do this...fine, but explain to me why the Intellikey can't unlock the barrel like it does when remote started! They got very rude with me when I asked how I could work around this so that idle mode would work with my Intellikey(I asked about using option 35 to pulse my tumbler sense line to unlock the barrel). The guy said it was illegal to tell me how to do this work around and kept blabbing that he won't be liable if I kill somebody. It was really uncalled for. I kept asking as to why my Intellikey would work with remote start but not after entering idle mode and all he could say is "that's how 07-08's behave". To say say the least, customer care was less than helpful. They did pretty much confirm what I had thought which is that this is a software issue on the Evo's end...I think. They garanteed me no other bypass/starter would get idle mode working as it should too. Great.

 

Yes, the car starts remotely on the first attempt every single time like clockwork...I can remote start, hop in and turn ignition barrel to run with Intellikey in my pocket, tap foot brake to kill starter, then drive away(car stays running throughout the entire process. I am not killing the engine and restarting it in order to drive away). So key sense and ignition sense are wired and diode isolated correctly.

1.I had tried but I will try again. I don't have them all on currently.

What is on now in the "A" section is:a1,a2,a3,and a7. I don't have any special functions so Aux 1&2 stay off. Heated seat control is not compatible with my car so that stays off. No hood trigger so that's off. Don't want the starter to kill the car if I pop the trunk so "trunk trigger(output status)" stays off...that leaves "door trigger(output status)" as an unlikely culprit(if this were the issue, then my physical key would not unlock the barrel like when the red harness is disconnected after engaging idle mode).

2.Tried with OEM remote and door unlock button(one on inside of car, not the outside door handle smart key button). They had me do this on the phone. I will try again with "door trigger(output status)" enabled again later.

3.All doors are closed when entering idle mode...

4.Works.

5.Enabled.

6.Yellow(ignition+) from 20pin evo harness is indeed connected to the pink wire on the t-harness.

 

Any other thoughts? I've wondered how PTS mode would behave...it seems extremely  silly that this does not work!!! Something seems off...

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Any other thoughts? I've wondered how PTS mode would behave...it seems extremely  silly that this does not work!!! Something seems off...

PTS cars we function 2-ways depending on the install. Either we press the button, or the guide says have the user press the PTS button once before leaving. The Tumbler models are tricky, honestly. The factory security for the tumbler to not turn on or off can be a headache on it;s own.

 

They are saying it has to do this...fine, but explain to me why the Intellikey can't unlock the barrel like it does when remote started! They got very rude with me when I asked how I could work around this so that idle mode would work with my Intellikey(I asked about using option 35 to pulse my tumbler sense line to unlock the barrel). The guy said it was illegal to tell me how to do this work around and kept blabbing that he won't be liable if I kill somebody. It was really uncalled for. I kept asking as to why my Intellikey would work with remote start but not after entering idle mode and all he could say is "that's how 07-08's behave".

He is actually right about the secuiryt concern. If we trigger that tumbler, anyone can get in the car after, turn the tumbler on, press the brake, shift in gear, and leave with the car. This would explain why the firmware is programmed to not trigger the tumbler on idle mode. The intellikey works with remote start because the EVO is seeing an unlock signal before leaving with the car. If it does not see an unlock, it would not allow the tumbler to turn (or it shuts down the car when a door is open, i forget which i havent touched this vehicle in a while, easy to test though).

 

If it's a security concern, the firmware will stay as is.

Here's a tip off the top of my head, i made you jump 2 wires together to see if the tumbler would unlock (test number 4). You said this worked. A little trickery would be to wire a switch and relay that jumps both those wires when you want to turn the tumbler off. once the tumbler off, turn the switch off. So, in theory, activate idle mode, turn switch on, turn off tumbler, turn off switch. (this is the type of tip we cannot be held accountable for. As a tech, work arounds are possible and we know this, but we need to hold our ground when vehicle security becomes a factor, it's nothing personal honestly).

 

i will have to dig deeper on if idle mode can be done safely, and if it is not the case i will get the website and guides to clearly indicate this.

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Robert, I'm still baffled by why Fortin thinks idle mode is a safety concern for us keyless guys and here's why...

When I remote start my car, the ignition barrel is unlocked. If I unlock my door, anybody can hop in and drive away WITHOUT my keys(I've tried this). This is the EXACT scenario I'm being told is "unsafe" in idle mode. WTF? So it's unsafe if you call it one thing but not if you call it another, smooth.

Not everybody buys a remote starter so they can start their car that's in their driveway. A lot of us want it to warm up our cars while they are in parking lots(thus why long range kits exist); where they inherently more susceptible to theft than in your driveway, per say...That said, remote start is actually leaving my car LESS safe than idle mode!!!

So why is it safe enough to unlock my ignition barrel from remote start while its in a random parking lot but it is to unsafe to do so out front of a store???

The firmware needs to be written to just unlock the ignition barrel at first unlock press for both remote start AND idle mode. That seems to me to be the best compromise for safety(that I can think of)!!!

No hostility meant towards you Robert; you've been a great help. I REALLY hope we/Fortin can come to a better solution for this!

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When I remote start my car, the ignition barrel is unlocked. If I unlock my door, anybody can hop in and drive away WITHOUT my keys(I've tried this). This is the EXACT scenario I'm being told is "unsafe" in idle mode. WTF? So it's unsafe if you call it one thing but not if you call it another, smooth.

Exactly. You unlocked the doors so take over was allowed, a thief would not unlock the doors (he breaks in). If a Thief has access to your remote to unlock the doors, he's leaving with the car no matter what. Do that same test with the window open and unlock the doors from the inside (don't have the oem key anywhere near the car). The car will shut down as soon as the brake is pressed or when the door is open, i forget which for intelligent keys. On smartkeys (push-to-start), we shut down the car on door open if unlock is not pressed. 

No hostility meant towards you Robert; you've been a great help. I REALLY hope we/Fortin can come to a better solution for this!

None taken, it's contructive criticism. It's just a matter of explainging how the remote start solution works on vehicles with an intelligent key properly. As an end user, it would be understanding that from a manufacturer stand point, we cannot have a firmware that can allow a thief to just leave with the car while it is remote started or in idle mode. Fortin Auto Radio would not have over 300 dealerships in Quebec installing our products if at any moment, the car can be stolen. 

 

Every now and then we will get a call from someone saying something similar on Push-to-Start cars. "I can unlock my doors, leave my key outside, then drive away". The answer is simple, you unlocked the doors, a thief can only unlock the doors if he has a remote. If he has a remote, he is leaving with the car no matter what, and with or without a remote starter installed. 

 

Note and little product knowledge?:

All intelligent or smart key vehicles are made by factory to not have the vehicle shut down if the smart key is removed from the car or the battery inside the remote dies while the engine is on. It's a security hazard. All aftermarket vehicle interfaces for remote start solutions cannot monitor that the key is actually in the car, so we all go by monitoring the unlock signal of either the oem remote or the aftermarket remote. This is why you were able to leave with the car with the test you did, the evo saw an unlock signal so it said to itself "ok, my owner is here and he unlocked the car from his remote". If the door was opened without unlocking, the evo thinks to itself, "wait a minute, the door was opened but not unlocked from a remote, this is most likely a thief, I am not letting him leave with the car."

• If you want to completely bypass take over, enable option D3 in the bypass options.
• If you want to guarantee that the evo needs to see an unlock signal, enable option 37.2 in the remote starter settings. The firmware for your vehicle is already supposed to do this. The option was created for cars with a regular key since sometimes a tech would rather have the car shut down on door open and not when the brake is pressed.

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From human to human.

Now, I understand the system is not functioning how you thought it would (no idle mode) by simply installing per instructions. Remember that this is your car. You can do whatever you please with it to get to do what you want as long as you can take responsibility. I personally installed an automatic starter on a manual car (my own) many years back. One day I accidentally left it in first gear and remote started it. It was not a good day!! But I assumed responsibilty and did not point fingers at the remote start manufacturer since my insurance did not cover damages as there was an improperly installed remote start system!. This is why I mentionned the wire trickery in the previous posts to help get a feature you would like to have. But keep in mind, vehicle security may be comprised on idle mode.

 

On our end, we need to make it a little more clear on how takeover works on this type of car, and if idle mode is available or not. Example would be for push-to-start vehicle installation guides. Right at the end, there is a section called "Remote Start Functionality".  I am not sure why this section was not included (most likely it was not concern) in the install guides of intelligent key vehicles. 

• Go see page Page 8/9, you'll understand what i mean - http://fortin.ca/download/33261/evo-one_nissaninfiniti_pts_revf20150527.pdf

 

This is what happens when i have too much coffee... I repeat myself over and over in the same post. Apologies.. :)